Transcript: Musk’s Threats Darken as Trump Declares Himself Above Law
Sargent: The key thing you draw out in your piece, Steve, is this concept called “competitive authoritarianism.” In this phenomenon, people get elected by democratic means then use state power across the board to make future elections less competitive. We sometimes hear this specious idea, including from mainstream reporters and commentators who really should know better, that Oh, Trump got elected legitimately, so what he’s doing now can’t be anti-democratic. It seems to me that that misses the whole point: Authoritarians can get elected, seize control of the state that way, and then use it to make the system significantly less democratic. Can you talk about this concept?
Levitsky: Sure. First of all, it is very, very naive to suggest that because somebody was popularly elected, they cannot, by definition, be authoritarian. Juan Perón in Argentina was freely elected. Hugo Chávez in Venezuela was freely elected. Bukele in El Salvador was freely elected. Erdoğan in Turkey was freely elected. That did not inhibit them from then going on to jail opponents, to exile opponents, to close down media, to engage in egregiously authoritarian behavior. In fact, most authoritarian regimes in the world today were originally elected.
Sargent: Absolutely. And we’re seeing this autocratic capture underway already. On Monday, Trump nominated Ed Martin as the U.S. attorney in Washington, as the top federal prosecutor in D.C., Martin has echoed Trump’s rhetoric about the 2020 election, and he retweeted a far-right influencer who said, “Where does it say in the Constitution that the DOJ is independent from POTUS?” Steve, this nomination is a pretty clear declaration that Trump wants to eradicate DOJ independence. And that really is a bulwark against the type of capture you’re talking about. We’ve also seen federal prosecutors pressured to drop the prosecution of New York Mayor Eric Adams, expressly to get his cooperation with Trump’s deportations. That’s caused resignations at the department. Given what you’ve seen from other authoritarians and autocrats, what do you think Trump expects this new U.S. attorney to do?
